Foundation Group Read Discussion Part 2

Here we are, the last group read discussion for Foundation by Isaac Asimov. These questions cover Part 3, Chapter 4 to the end. Group read questions are in bold and my answers follow. There will be mild spoilers if you have not read the book.

Salvor Hardin was the first character in the book that we got to spend any significant time with. What are your thoughts on the grande finale of his plotting, scheming and maneuvering to get the Foundation through to the next Seldon crisis?

Seldon put a lot of faith in the next generation to carry out his plan. I understand why the book is called Foundation. Seldon built a strong foundation from the beginning in order to accomplish his vision. It seems wrong, all the scheming and plotting but it’s all done for the survival of the Foundation and to prevent war and so far the Foundation has been able to prosper and grow without fighting or being taken over by their stronger neighbors.

What are your thoughts on the way in which control/manipulation to achieve Foundation ends began to shift with The Traders?

Although it was all part of the grand scheme, it was also a natural progression as society begins to advance on its own. Without the Foundation's manipulation it would have happened though not as quickly as it has. And I like that it’s starting to steer away from the religious aspect of control over technology.

One of the interesting things about Seldon's psychohistory is how much one man can actually affect it. In Foundation we see characters like Hardin and Mallow as key figures for positioning things just right to work towards Seldon's later predictions. Do you see this as a contradiction to what Seldon said about psychohistory at the beginning of our story or part of an overall plan? Discuss.

Just as Seldon took initiative to set things in motion to establish the Foundation, I do believe he knew that there would be others like him who would understand his vision for the Foundation. And it would take these two extraordinary men, Hardin and Mallow, to set things in motion to accomplish that overall plan.

Did you see similarities or differences between the way in which Salvador Hardin and Hober Mallow operated and what are your thoughts about this final section of Foundation? Would you have been content as a reader back then with how everything played out?

Hardin and Mallow both had similar situations where the Foundation was threatened and with clever maneuvering they had to work their way out of it in mostly non-violent ways, the result being a stronger Foundation. The differences, from what I can tell, Hardin took control through a coup and turned the other kingdoms against each other, where Mallow did so proving his innocence during a trial, very similar to Seldon had to go through.

I enjoyed the way events played out so I think I would have been content if I had read this years ago too.

Has your concept/thoughts of what Seldon was trying to do changed at all since the book began?

Not really. I was questioning his motives to begin with, whether he truly was trying to establish the Foundation for the good of the Galactic Empire. I’m really leaning towards him establishing his own galaxy wide empire that would be built upon the foundation he established and he’s counting on his Foundation to not make the same mistakes as the Galactic Empire.

Any final thoughts on the story as a whole, its structure, what it did or did not accomplish, how it worked for you, etc?

I enjoyed it and I liked the reveal that Mallow had been set up and was able to prove it. I read the debate on the info dump in the conversations from last week’s group read discussion. It did get a bit wordy in that way near the end with the trial. After reading something like Zone One, which had little dialogue, I was nice to have the characters speaking to each other and events unfolding through their actions, instead of it all happening in their heads.

I’m glad I participated in this group read. So far with the Science Fiction Experience this is the only book I’ve enjoyed. I got about thirty pages into The Difference Engine and Count to a Trillion before giving up. A gratuitous boob grab and techno babble with some grammar mistakes (intentional or bad editing?) were the deal breakers with both. I just have to say that Foundation had just enough science and technology that it wasn’t overwhelming, political intrigue to make it interesting and it moved at a nice quick pace. And since I enjoyed Foundation I will be participating in the next group read coming up for Foundation and Empire by Isaac Asimov, the second book in the series.

Foundation Group Read Discussion Part 1

Here we go! The first group read discussion of Foundation by Isaac Asimov and the first post for the Science Fiction Experience. These are questions for the first half of the book, Part 1 through Part 3, Chapter 4. Remember there will be spoilers! Though at this point in the book they are minor. Below are the group read discussion questions in bold and my answers. Let's get started!

For the purpose of satisfying curiosity, is this your first time reading Foundation or have you read it before?

First time!

For those reading Foundation for the first time, what expectations did you have going in and has it met them or surprised you in any way?

I had no expectations. I hadn’t even done any research online about the story. I went in completely ignorant and willing to let it surprise or disappoint me.

I will say Asimov has always intimidated me. Most Sci-Fi books in general have always intimidated me. I usually stuck with the Star Wars EU since I was already familiar with the story of the Republic and the Empire. I had branched out slightly with The Forever War, Battlefield Earth and The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (a book I forgot to mention I had read) and enjoyed them but hadn’t moved beyond them. I always felt the technical side would go over my head or it would just be so technical I would not be able to connect with the characters.

What are your thoughts about the structure of the novel thus far? (I am referring to the brief glimpses of different parts of the history of the Foundation with big time gaps between events in the novel)

I like it. I find it interesting to see how the results of the events have shaped the future from one generation to the next and how much has changed.

What are your initial thoughts on the field of psychohistory?

Predicting the future through psychology is interesting but scary. I can see guessing future events based on the past may be possible and helpful to learn from our ancestors mistakes. But it could lead to someone actually manipulating things so it does happen, instead of letting history happen naturally. So you have to wonder, if Hari Seldon did not predict the fall of the Galactic Empire in the first place in order to establish the Foundation, would the Empire even fall? Did it let things deteriorate knowing it would reestablish itself in the future because Seldon predicted it?

What, if anything, is holding your interest thus far, what are you enjoying about Foundation?

Salvor Hardin I found fascinating; seeing him as a young man then thirty years later to see how he has changed. Also learning the true purpose of the Foundation and that there’s still more to be revealed. I also enjoy the political maneuvering and manipulation of the kingdoms that have broken away from the Galactic Empire.

What, if anything, are you not enjoying about Foundation?

So far I’m really enjoying it so I don’t have anything negative to say.

You may have covered this in answering the other questions, but if not, what are your thoughts/feelings about the Galactic Empire. Is it a practical thing to have a galaxy spanning government? Can you imagine such a thing and do you think it would work?

Ha, I keep thinking of Star Wars and how it never seemed to work, whether it was the Old and New Republic or the Empire. Even in our own history when you look at the British Empire and the U.S.S.R. I think it’s been proven that such a thing won’t work.

What are your thoughts on Hardin's creation of a religious system in which to house scientific ideas and technology while keeping the users of that science and technology in the dark?

This troubled me. It made me think of the Dark Ages, after the fall of the Roman Empire. To go from such enlightenment then to fall back onto superstitions beliefs ruled by religion is just unfortunate. But there must be a reason for it and for the Foundation, it was for their survival. I wonder how much longer it can go on for though, especially when space travel is still possible and was possible even before the Galactic Empire began to fall.

I am really enjoying Foundation so far. I find myself engaged with the characters even though they do not stick around for long as we jump thirty to fifty years after the Foundation has been established. Now I'm off to read what others thought of the first part. If you've read Foundation and would like to join in the discussion, share your thoughts here in the comments or see what others have are talking about here.